Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Topics on the News-Argus opinion polls.
Forum rules
The Goldsboro News-Argus reserves the right to delete any posts deemed inappropriate or off-topic.

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby jccooper on Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:41 pm

If I might interject.

No one has said that the Muslim's have no right to build a Mosque, Pullen. To do so would be grossly un-American, we are simply asking, that if this is really about improving relations, that we sit down and discuss all of our options. If this is truly to be about unity then why investigate a group just because they have stated their discontent with a building? I completely agree that to tell these Muslim's that they can't build their Mosque is unconstitutional, but to investigate someone for using their freedom of speech to state their differing opinion is just as unconstitutional.

Also, you state that Ms. Darwish's points are invalid because she is not a scholar. If I might ask, when has education given more credibility than experience? Ms. Darwish LIVED her religion, she didn't just research it. To completely discount her is rather naive in my opinion.
jccooper
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:07 pm

"No one has said that the Muslim's have no right to build a Mosque, Pullen. To do so would be grossly un-American, we are simply asking, that if this is really about improving relations, that we sit down and discuss all of our options."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/2 ... 93142.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38863919/ns/us_news-life/

http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/201 ... ou-muslim/

"I completely agree that to tell these Muslim's that they can't build their Mosque is unconstitutional, but to investigate someone for using their freedom of speech to state their differing opinion is just as unconstitutional."


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41204.html

"Also, you state that Ms. Darwish's points are invalid because she is not a scholar. If I might ask, when has education given more credibility than experience? Ms. Darwish LIVED her religion, she didn't just research it. To completely discount her is rather naive in my opinion."


See video below...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icyoDzAkPP4

See link, what constitutes a good source in academic writing...

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/588/02/

How do I know if a source is credible?


Who is the author? Credible sources are written by authors respected in their fields of study. Responsible, credible authors will cite their sources so that you can check the accuracy of and support for what they've written. (This is also a good way to find more sources for your own research.)

What is the author's purpose?
When deciding which sources to use, you should take the purpose or point of view of the author into consideration. Is the author presenting a neutral, objective view of a topic? Or is the author advocating one specific view of a topic? Who is funding the research or writing of this source? A source written from a particular point of view may be credible; however, you need to be careful that your sources don't limit your coverage of a topic to one side of a debate.

What type of sources does your audience value? If you are writing for a professional or academic audience, they may value peer-reviewed journals as the most credible sources of information.
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby GKCWANNABE on Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:53 am

Pullen 978807, I appreciate your response, but I’m afraid you misinterpreted mine. I am not an expert on Islamic doctrines and make no pretense to be. And if you re-read my post you’ll see that I make very few assertions and instead offer suggestions and other possible interpretations.

“To dismiss her statements of the Islam she grew up with as “gross generalizations” seems a bit naïve.”
This statement was made to point out that up to this point you had not provided evidence, outside of your own Muslim friends, to prove that the generalizations of Nonie Darwish are “gross.” Rather you replace her assertions with your own, based on your limited experience with your Muslim friends who, as far as the readers know, may have grown up here in America. I admit that I don’t know which, if either of you is right. But if forced to choose between the two, I’d say Nonie was more credible.


“You also state that, in regards to religious violence, “we must recognize that bad goes against the norm.” If by ‘norm’ we mean the majority of people who practice Islam, you would be correct. But why assume the majority is the norm.”
When I say “norm” I’m referring to the proper interpretation of Islam. I do not believe that the majority of people who practice Islam are violent, but that does not mean that their interpretation is correct. I don’t know which interpretation is correct, but I can’t just take your word for it. You must offer substantial proof. And substantial proof would involve expert knowledge of the Islamic faith not your friendship with a few Muslims. I read the link you posted http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... 3758859025 but all it does is prove that there is a peaceful interpretation of Islam. It does not prove that it is correct. I could just as easily find a website that supports the opposing interpretation. The problem is that there is no central authority to turn to for the correct interpretation. There is no Islamic Pope.
As to your question: “Do you not agree that terrorism is not a typical or expected behavior of those who profess the Islamic faith?”
I agree that it’s not typical, but whether or not it’s expected is exactly what I don’t know. That is what I would like to have proven to me.

“Perhaps the violent interpretation of Islam is the proper one, and the moderate Muslims are wrong.”
I use the word “perhaps” because this is a possibility that has yet to be proven or disproven. As I stated before, the number of people who hold a particular belief in no way affects the truth of it.
You ask: “Are you suggesting that a majority of Muslims are interpreting their religious text incorrectly? Are you saying that moderate Muslim scholars are interpreting their religious text incorrectly?”
The only reason for believing in anything is that it is true. As a Christian, I believe that my particular denomination is the truth and that all other denominations must have had error introduced at some point in time. To some degree, they are wrong. So to answer your question, I am suggesting that a majority of Muslims may be interpreting their religious texts incorrectly. And just as I believe many Christian scholars interpret their religious texts incorrectly, Muslim scholars can be just as capable of error. I’m not saying they are wrong, but you asserted that they are right without proving it. That is the point I was trying to make.

“The fact that a text is religious does not automatically make it peaceful.”
I agree that this applies to Christianity and Judaism as well. However you stated: “Violence in the name of religion is less about the religion and religious text, and more about the way individuals interpret the religious text to justify their own selfish aims whether it be slavery, racism, sexism, war, and jihad.”
I may have misunderstood your meaning, but I understood your statement to mean that religious violence only comes from misinterpretation of the text. Is there no such thing as a violent religion?

“If you were writing a research paper on the religion of Islam, wouldn’t someone like Nonie Darwish, who grew up not just in the religion but also in the culture, be a more credible source than a Muslim who has spent the majority of his life in western civilization.”
No, Nonie is not a scholar. But the statement was made to show that Nonie has at least as much credibility as your friends when it comes to questions of the Islamic faith.

“Understand that I am not attacking Islam or assuming that it is violent. I merely refuse to accept that any violent interpretation of a religion is wrong simply because it is a religion.”
I’m not saying the violent interpretation is correct. The point of my post has been that I don’t know, and you have yet to prove it.

Using Partial Quotes to Prove a Point?
This is what I get for not checking my source before posting.

“And I see no reason to dismiss the generalizations of someone like Nonie Darwish because she of all people has the right to make them.”
The generalizations of Nonie Darwish are founded on her own personal experiences. To say that her “notions are completely false and unfounded” is to deny that any of her story is true. But my point is that you haven’t produced any source more credible than her.

Now before I address the last point, I’d like to summarize where we’re at so far. As I understand you, your position is this:
1) Protest of the mosque is due to Islamophobia.
2) This phobia is based on unfounded stereotypes saying that Islam is a violent religion and all Muslims are violent.
3) In your posts, your main concern has been to prove that Islam is peaceful.
4) “If I can prove Islam is peaceful, I destroy the main argument against the building of the mosque.”

My position is this:
1) There are Islamophobics in this country, but that fact doesn’t mean we should dismiss any protest against the mosque as irrational fear.
2) You have produced lists of scholars and websites to support the claim that Islam is not violent. But theses sources prove what we already know: there is a violent version and a peaceful version of Islam. However, none of these sources prove which interpretation is true. They simply prove that there are different interpretations.
3) The lack of a recognized authority within Islam makes it impossible to know which interpretation is true.
4) My goal is not to prove that Islam is violent. My goal is to show that you haven’t proven that it’s peaceful.
5) Now I’ll address your last point.


“The fact that relocating the mosque would go a long way to demonstrating to skeptical America that the Islamic community in this country is willing to work to better relations with their fellow US citizens and change the perception of Islam as a religion of violence.”
Even if you could prove that Islam is a religion of peace, you cannot rid the association that Americans make between Islam and the terrorist actions of 9/11. It’s still too soon. By relocating the mosque, the peaceful faction of Islam can go a long way to separating themselves from the violent extremists. Are they wrong if they don’t? Not legally, though it does show a lack of compassion for their fellow citizens.

“I disagree with the notion that it is the responsibility of members within a stigmatized group to help someone who carries prejudice, racist, or xenophobic sentiments to rid themselves of such sentiments.”
Muslims are a stigmatized group, but it is the duty of stigmatized groups to help someone who carries prejudice rid themselves of such sentiments. It is the moderate Muslim’s nonviolence that proves he or she is peaceful. By living your life as a good Christian aren’t you preventing Christianity from being wrongly stereotyped? Don’t you prove everyday that you are not the “stereotypical” African American? You said you’d been profiled before, but the fact that the officer was wrong demonstrates to him that not all African Americans are criminals. I don’t believe it’s right that any group is wrongly stereotyped, but unfortunately the actions of a few have severe consequences for everyone else. The peaceful Muslims were thrown into a battle that they didn’t ask for when members of their faith flew two planes into the World Trade Center. Is this fair? Of course not, but that doesn’t change the reality of their situation.
We don’t place a similar responsibility on Christians because even the violent extremists have yet to complete an attack in the name of Christianity as large scale as the 9/11 attacks. Is this fair? No, but life seldom is. So yes, I do believe the moderate Muslims are responsible for proving to the world that they are nonviolent. And relocating the mosque would be a powerful way to accomplish this.
GKCWANNABE
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:15 pm

@ GKCWANNABE, no problem. There is nothing wrong with healthy and honest debate. I appreciate the open, online dialogue.

“This statement was made to point out that up to this point you had not provided evidence, outside of your own Muslim friends, to prove that the generalizations of Nonie Darwish are “gross.”

True. You’re right. I never quoted or posted a link describing some of the outrageous remarks the Nonie Darwish makes. I apologize. Darwish makes some valid points when talking about Sharia law and extremism in the region. Having said that, her impartiality and bias comes to bear in the statements that she makes; this is why her presence on campuses across the nation is always met with harsh criticism. See quotes below from a Princeton religion major from Lebanon and a Tufts International Relations major who took notes of Darwish's speeches and wrote articles for their school newspapers.

“In the end, Darwish failed to make a coherent argument or suggest actual solutions to the problems that we have in the Arab world. Instead, she left us with the impression that the Arab-Muslim world is a barbaric, inhumane wasteland. If we look for solutions based on that knowledge alone, a full-fledged war against Arabs and Muslims seems to be the only reasonable response. This is what a frighteningly large number of people in this country already believe needs to be done. It is during times like these that we must not do what Darwish did during her visit to Princeton: take words and images out of context, conflate a set of variegated issues, demonize an entire culture and create unjustified fear (Nour Aoude, Princeton University).”

“The purpose of interfaith action is not to avoid differences or difficult issues, and we cannot pretend that a few magic words will end all of the world’s problems. Nevertheless, how we discuss these difficult issues is very important, considering that the ultimate goal of interfaith work is finding ways to work together despite our differences. Therefore, when Ms. Darwish issued generalizations and superficial statements about Islam, she did not contribute to a greater understanding of the Muslim faith. Instead, by characterizing her controversial personal interpretation of Islam as the true Islam, she portrayed it as something many in the audience do not believe to be true (Dan Resnick, Tufts University).”


If you don’t check out any others, check out the first link.

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/03/25/25611/
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/op-ed/in-resp ... -1.2193742
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/04/08/25767/

It is not that I am diminishing Nonie Darwish’s personal or cultural experiences with radical Islam. I only wish that she took a more objective approach while discussing the topic. I think that Nonie Darwish is launching a respectable crusade in favor of ending terrorism and human rights violations in the Middle East. I think that it is problematic to make broad statements and characterizations about a particular culture based on the actions of people that represent a small portion of that culture. Some argue that Darwish has credentials because she grew up in an Islamic cultural society. Malcolm X grew up in American society; however, his credentials for speaking against American terrorism and human rights violations were not accepted. As a Muslim turned Christian, Darwish is disappointedly not using her personal experiences to promote interfaith dialogue; instead, she is using her personal experiences to stoke fear in the minds of some Americans. Fear that may lead to events such as urinating on a rug at an Islamic place of worship, or the slashing of a Muslim cab driver’s throat. Fear that leads to anti-Islamic hate crimes across the country.
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:27 pm

“When I say “norm” I’m referring to the proper interpretation of Islam. I do not believe that the majority of people who practice Islam are violent, but that does not mean that their interpretation is correct.”

OK. I see where you coming from. You are using norm when there is no reason to use the term. If I’m not mistaken, you are saying that no one knows if the proper interpretation of the Islamic text is the interpretation that many moderates adhere to or the interpretation that extremists adhere to. You conclude that you do not know which interpretation is correct.

Different Christian denominations interpret the Bible in different ways. If you checked out the links from my previous post on those organizations you would see that radical Christians have some pretty extreme interpretations of the Bible. Even going away from terrorism and religious extremism, you have some Christians who believe in the rapture and some who do not. Some Christians believe in hell and some do not. Religious interpretation is personal and people of different faiths interpret them differently. Religions, however, due have traditional, mainstream interpretations that evolves as culture evolves. Many people claim that the Islamic interpretations of the Quran has not evolved and this lack of evolution is the source of human rights violations in the Middle East, and that may be the case. Having said that we must recognize that there is static and dynamic interpretation of the religious text. I truly wonder if a correct interpretation of any religious text even exists. If “ONE CORRECT” interpretation did exist, I would assume that millions of Christians, Muslims, Jews, and people of all religious traditions are incorrectly interpreting their religious text for the simple reason that there are far too many scriptural interpretations in every religion. I do believe that there is a mainstream Islam, practiced by a majority of Muslims, which is nonviolent.

“In reality, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are an exceptionally peaceful and tolerant people who seek to live in harmony and happiness with their non-Muslim neighbors. But as the saying goes, all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing (Dr. David Liepert author of ‘Muslim, Christian, and Jew: Finding a Path to Peace our Faith Can Share’)“


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-david- ... 88553.html

"I agree that it’s not typical, but whether or not it’s expected is exactly what I don’t know."


Can you honestly tell me that you do not know whether or not you should expect terrorism for the average adherent of Islam, the moderate adherent of Islam, the ordinary Muslim America? If you were seated on a train and a Muslim-American sits in the empty seat beside you, do you become overwhelmed with fear? What is your emotional response to such an occurrence? I would engage in causal dialogue with the individual. Maybe talk about Islamic-Western relations. But I would not expect or be worried of a potential terrorist attack. Why, because fear (due to not knowing what to expect of the ordinary Muslim when statistics suggest otherwise) excites the “fight-or-flight system.” It encourages individuals to act in an irrational manner. It may possibly lead to second-degree attempted murder charges with a maximum penalty of 25 years in prison. It may cause a Muslim-American cab driver (father of four) to be sent to the hospital as a result of suffering repeated stab wounds to the neck. Why? Because he was a Muslim taxi driver, driving an American carrying deep fears and anxieties about people who practice Islam.

"That is what I would like to have proven to me."


You can probably prove it to yourself. How many terrorist attacks or hate crimes perpetrated by Muslim-Americans in recent memory (think years or even decades) are you aware of. 1, 2, 3, 10, 100? Divide that number by the estimated number of Muslims in American (5-6 million in estimates from U.S News and World Report and CAIR) Statistically speaking, is it rational to expect terrorism of Muslim-Americans? Some claim that it is not actual terrorist attacks but the anti-Western, extremist messages delivered in mosques across the country. That is not factual. A study conducted at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy finds that mosques actually prevent the spread of terrorism.

http://bluewavenews.com/blog/2010/08/09 ... terrorism/

Study Threat of Muslim-American terrorism is grossly exaggerated

“A small number of Muslim-Americans have undergone radicalization since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, the study found. It compiled a list of 139 individuals it categorized as "Muslim-American terrorism offenders" who had become radicalized in the U.S. in that time -- a rate of 17 per year.”

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/mu ... ion.study/

The only reason for believing in anything is that it is true. As a Christian, I believe that my particular denomination is the truth and that all other denominations must have had error introduced at some point in time."

Can you prove that your denomination is the true denomination? I think that no one can do such a thing. I'm nondenominational myself. I might have talked about incorrect or correct interpretations earlier. I really think that there is no such thing as a correct, absolutely right interpretation of a religious text. There are mainstream and extreme interpretations of religious texts that will cause those on the fringe of interpretation to engage in acts that those within the mainstream condemn. I recognize this in Christianity and Islam. The fact that a majority of Muslims read the Quran, interpret it, and are not compelled to violence supports the notion that the mainstream interpretation of Islam is not the same as the extreme, violent interpretation practiced by those responsible for 9/11 and other attacks.
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:27 pm

"I may have misunderstood your meaning, but I understood your statement to mean that religious violence only comes from misinterpretation of the text. Is there no such thing as a violent religion?"

I posted a link on the Christian Identity Movement, a movement comprised of extremely conservative Christians who happen to be racist, sexist, homophobic. Below is a quote from an FBI report on the organization:

"The view of what Armageddon will be varies among Christian Identity believers. Some contend there will be a race war in which millions will die; others believe that the United Nations, backed by Jewish representatives of the anti-Christ, will take over the country and promote a New World Order. One Christian Identity interpretation is that white Christians have been chosen to watch for signs of the impending war in order to warn others. They are to then physically struggle with the forces of evil against sin and other violations of God’s law (i.e., race-mixing and internationalism); many will perish, and some of God’s chosen will be forced to wear the Mark of the Beast to participate in business and commerce. After the final battle is ended and God’s kingdom is established on earth, only then will the Aryan people be recognized as the one and true Israel."

I think somewhere in the bible it says every tree is judged by its fruits. I think the task of finding out whether or not a religion is violent or not is a fruitless one. Having said that, I think it is easy to use statistics to determine whether or not a religion is characterized by violence. How and why is Islam considered a violent religion when a majority of its followers do not practice violence in the name of Islam? I am not aware of a violent religion; although I am aware of grave atrocities done in the name of religion. Are there violent religions? If so, which ones?

"No, Nonie is not a scholar. But the statement was made to show that Nonie has at least as much credibility as your friends when it comes to questions of the Islamic faith."

You keep suggesting that because Nonie was raised in the culture she has credibility. I agree. It is not the facts about her personal life that I disagree with, it is her generalizations. For example many Americans are aware of the tragic murder of Sean Bell, an unarmed African-American who on the eve of his wedding, was shot 50 times by police officers in New York. Many Americans are aware of the murder of Oscar Grant, who was shot and killed by a police office while lying face down in handcuffs. If I was on the speaking circuit discussing the topic of race and justice in America, as Nonie is about Islamic culture, there are a number of ways I can present the above information.

The facts: The murders of Sean Bell and Oscar Grant are examples of unjustifiable murder by American police officers; however, this kind of behavior is not representative of all American police officers. Police officers do not gun down unarmed African-Americans on a daily basis. Nevertheless, we must work to reduce unnecessary murder by police officers.

The generalizations: The cases of Sean Bell and Oscar grant prove that all American police officers secretly harbor ill-will an animosity towards Black males. This animosity manifests itself in the unjustifiable homicides of Black males, as well as other incidents of police brutality which occur daily. We can't trust cops to protect and to serve when they kill innocent, unarmed individuals all the time.

The first is a statement of facts that ends with expressed support for reducing unnecessary murders by police. The second statement consists of several unfounded and not statistically supported generalizations (1) that all police officers dislike Black males (2) that this dislike causes them to murder unarmed Black males and contributes to incidences of police brutality, and (3) we can't trust cops. There is nothing wrong with a presentation of facts, but when they morph into generalizations used to characterize an entire group (all Muslims (or police)) based on the actions of a few (few cops (or al-Qaeda)) then we have a problem.

"I’m not saying the violent interpretation is correct. The point of my post has been that I don’t know, and you have yet to prove it."

There are mainstream interpretations, radical interpretations, extreme interpretations, moderate interpretations, etc. Out of these interpretations emerge behavioral practices and traditions, some that are violent and others that are not. Mainstream Islam in American is not violent, inherently violent, etc.

This is what I believe...


1. Statistics suggests that many Americans harbor negative views of Islam, largely because of the terrorist attacks perpetrated by 19 members of al-Qaeda
2. Negative views has lead to a sudden increase of hate-crimes against Muslim-Americans
3. Muslim-Americans are being marginalized and ostracized by Americans of all political persuasions
4. Political leaders are using Islam, 9/11, and American fears about both for political gain
5. The negative views are unwarranted given the fact that mainstream American-Muslims do not interpret their religious text and do not behave in the same way as the radical extremists
6. The ultimate decision to build or relocate the mosque should be made irrespective of the opinions of most Americans because of the simple fact is that, this is America, and we have to remain true to our values and beliefs
7. Some victims of 9/11 believe the mosque should be relocated and some members do not
8. Irrespective of whether or not the mosque is relocated (it probably won’t) Americans need to take the time to educate themselves on the Islamic faith so that the kind of fear and phobia responsible for the growth in hate crimes against our fellow citizens can be eradicated
9. I don’t think the location of the mosque is insensitive or inappropriate because it is really a community center that is located within the community where the people who will use it reside (it is not exclusively for Muslims, it has a pool room, basketball court...)
10. If mainstream Muslims concede to anti-Mosque activists at ground zero, similar anti-Mosque movements will occur across the nation (happened back in Tennessee last month, a Florida mosque was pipe-bombed with people in it)

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zero_m ... 29/mosques
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:51 pm

“Muslims are a stigmatized group, but it is the duty of stigmatized groups to help someone who carries prejudice rid themselves of such sentiments.”

I disagree. But I also think that they unintentionally prove this all the time. Again I ask how many terrorist attacks by Muslim-Americans (we have an estimated 5-6 million) has America suffered since 9/11 or in the decades before 9/11. How many hate crimes against Muslim-Americans by Americans have occurred since 9/11? The numbers alone suggest that it is more rational for Muslim-Americans to be fearful. Their religious centers are getting piped bombed. They are getting stabbed by taxi passengers. I have not heard of a Muslim taxi passenger stabbing a Christian driver solely because he or she is a Christian.

“By living your life as a good Christian aren’t you preventing Christianity from being wrongly stereotyped? Don’t you prove everyday that you are not the “stereotypical” African American?”

I just live life trying to be the best person that I can be, personally and spiritually. This involves getting my degree, going to law school, and entering a profession that will enable me to provide for a family when the time comes for me to have one. At the same time I focus on bettering my relationship with Christ. I don’t really pay much attention to breaking nor do I actively strive to break stereotypes. Maybe I did prove the officer wrong. If I did that’s good. But why should the officer assume that all Blacks are criminal in the first place?

“I don’t believe it’s right that any group is wrongly stereotyped, but unfortunately the actions of a few have severe consequences for everyone else.”

True. But I think that American adults should be able to recognize that every individual is unique; that the actions of a few in no way reflect the actions of the many. Until this happens we will continue to have problems of racial, ethnic, religious, and cultural division.

“The peaceful Muslims were thrown into a battle that they didn’t ask for when members of their faith flew two planes into the World Trade Center.”


Battle? Are we at war with moderate Islam? I thought we were at war against terrorists? The conflation of Islam with terrorist has to stop.

“We don’t place a similar responsibility on Christians because even the violent extremists have yet to complete an attack in the name of Christianity as large scale as the 9/11 attacks.”

During the Bosnian genocide, which involved the systematic murder of Bosnian Muslims by Serbian Christians, 200,000 Bosnian Muslims were killed. More than 3500 children were systematically shot and killed by sniper fire. One of my colleagues at my campus library job is a Bosnian who sought refuge in the United States. I don't place the requirement on her to prove to me that she is not violent. To be honest, we are good friends, she encourages my academic success and takes interest in my academic studies. I don't even know if she practices Islam. But I personally, would feel like a horrible person if expected an individual who witnessed a great atrocity (or who did not) to prove to me that she does not have intentions of committing similar atrocities. I just don't think that way.

“So yes, I do believe the moderate Muslims are responsible for proving to the world that they are nonviolent. “


Why isn’t the fact that they are nonviolent sufficient enough to prove that they are nonviolent? Again, how many attacks by Muslim-Americans in the past two decades? Is it greater than any other number of hate crimes perpetrated in America? They don’t have to deliberately attempt (as in moving the mosque) to prove what they are. The fact that they (99% of the 6 million) have not yet and statistically speaking have no intentions of committing any kind of violent attack is proof alone that they are not violent. If some Americans can’t swallow those facts than they have a problem, not Muslims and it is their duty to fix those problems. Again, irrational fear is the worst kind. The act of lynching, a common practice during the 18th and 19th century, stemmed from irrational fear of Black males.

“And relocating the mosque would be a powerful way to accomplish this.”


We both often refer to it as a mosque, it is actually a community center with a mosque on the top 3 floors. I don’t think moving the community center will do anything to help relations. Why? Because before this community center even gained national attention hate crimes against Muslim-Americans were on the rise. Again, the Florida church was piped bomb. There is nothing a Muslim-American can do to changed the psyche of anti-Islamic Americans (who is not the entire, but is a significant portion of the community center's opposition). Just as there is nothing that Black Americans can do to change the minds of White Supremacists. Irrational fear trumps everything. And that, my friend, is the heart of the problem. If we can get rid of our country of this irrational fear, then there will be hopes of better relations in the future.
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:51 pm

*Stumbled across this article while getting my daily political fix...I think it is relevant to this ongoing debate.

"ATF and FBI agents are investigating a Saturday morning fire that damaged four pieces of equipment and could halt construction at the site of the planned Islamic center and mosque just outside Murfreesboro."

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100 ... 01/8290365

See, Imam Rauf could relocate the community center hundreds of miles to Murfreesboro, Tennessee or even Goldsboro, NC and there is a great possibility that the fuss won't stop. I've always believed that the entire fuss has nothing to do with a mosque near ground zero; there is one already located 4 blocks away. The fuss is largely due to politicians exploiting the fears of gullible Americans for political gain. Republicans are trying to bank on the mosque issue. Did you see the NY gubernatorial candidate Rick Lazio's ad? The Lt. Governor of Tennessee, the state of the latest mosque attack, referred to Islam as a cult. Newt Gingrich is comparing Islam to Nazism and suggesting that the mosque should not be built. Sarah Palin issued similar statements. There remarks are markedly different from former Republican President George W. Bush, whom I have had numerous disagreements with but not when it comes to the honest characterization of Muslim-Americans.

George W. Bush: Islam is Peace Speech

➢ "These acts of violence against innocence violates the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. It is important for my fellow Americans to understand that."
➢ "The face of terror is not the true face of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war."
➢ "When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to billions of people around the world. Billions of people find comfort, and solace, and peace."
➢ "Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our county. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shop keepers, moms and dads, and they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect."
➢ "I've been told that some fear to leave. Some don't want to go shopping for their families. Some don't want to go about the ordinary daily routines because they are afraid that by wearing cover they will be intimidated. That should not and will not stand in America."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ZoroJdVnA
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 site

Postby pullen978807 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:24 am

Conservatives made unprecedented gains last night. What are you guys thinking about the results for last night's midterm elections? Were they the result of a backlash against Obama's policies? Or were they largely the product of conservatives desire to get out and reclaim what they had lost in the past few congressional elections? What role, if any, did the apathy of the Democratic coalition play in helping Republicans reclaim the House and close the gap in the Senate? What political implications will this decision have on the pending 2012 Presidential race? Answer all, any, one, or none of these questions at the link below.

http://www.marquispullen.com/p/discussi ... ns-199311/
pullen978807
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Building a mosque a couple blocks away from the 9/11 sit

Postby HeavenScent on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:08 am

WHY WORRY ABOUT A MOSQUE WHEN THEY OWN ALMOST ALL OF THE GAS STATIONS IN AMERICA? NOW THAT'S SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT. 8-)

HEAVENSCENT
HeavenScent
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:26 pm

PreviousNext

Return to News-Argus Poll Topics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

cron